#transmisandry babies

[0w0tsuki]

Both "Transandrophobia" and "Transmisandry" come before "Transmisoginy" when you search for it, with"Transandrophobia" being one of the top results when you type in "trans" into the search bar. The average post from the top Transandrophobia blogs where they Critique and Analyze cropped screen caps of transfem's posts behind their back will get thousands of notes of praise for RATIONAL and REASONABLE they are for speculating that a throwaway line about "trans girls taking the piss" is actually a joke in direct reference to an anon led sexual harassment campaign of a trans man.

And due to the new tagging policy all that's needed is to mention the word for it to come up in the tags. Which has resulted in half of the #transmisoginy tag being mired with trans androbros crying about how their not transmisoginists, or that they're affected by transmisoginy, or that TME/TMA distinctions are just interagating them about their genitals. Which is by the way AFTER I've used the notes of the posts by the aforementioned top transandro blogs as a blocklist to block these chuds by the thousands. I STILL have to to sift through trans andro post after transandro posts to find a post discussing transmisoginy IN THE GOD DAMN TRANSMISOGINY TAG!

It's been nearly half a year since @/humans announced that they were "working vewwy had :(" to unban the #tgirl tag when they've proved that they can unban tags within a week. Meanwhile the #tboy tag was never flagged to begin with. Hell. Trans women can't even post a selfie in the #transisbeautiful tag without risking attracting the attention of sissy porn chaser blogs.

And EVERYTIME we point out transmisoginy whether it's the "megapope was right" discourse, calls to "critique" gender affirming care for transfems under the pretense that it affirms the patriarchy, obvious "best of both worlds " trap jokes, or a crossdressing cis femboy streamer being treated Height of Gender™ who "no one else does it like". EVERY TIME we point this shit out we are met with condescending TMEs treating it as the Transfem Crusade of the week. Who belittle, talk down to us, and position themselves as the educator to us aabout our own oppression. Who tell us that we are taking things out of context, that were overreacting, that we don't have any reading comprehension, that we don't understand basic theory, and that we're just looking for anything to be angry about.

But no keep crying about how trans men are ignored and talked over meanwhile transwomen are overprioritized and "dominate" the trans conversation. Because surely we haven't been told enough about how we take up too much space.

[genderstarbucks]

Acknowledging that transandrophobia exists is not us denying that transmisogyny exists

If you believe in transmisogyny but not transmisandry, why? Give me an actual GOOD reason

Transandrophobia is just a word to describe the shit that us trans men and transmascs go through, it says nothing about our thoughts on transmisogyny

I am a "transandrophobia truther" because I believe that transphobia specifically directed towards trans man and transmascs exist.

Yes, I do believe in transmisogyny because trans women and transfems DO face transphobia specifically for being women and fem

But I also believe that transandrophobia exists, because it fucking does

Yes, we're both trans but we face different kinds of discrimination

Transandrophobia is literally just a word describing the hate that trans men and transmascs face, just like transmisogyny is literally just a word describing the hate that trans women and transfems face

I'm tired of you people believing that trans men and transmascs don't face any oppression and are generally accepted

WE FUCKING AREN'T, ALL THESE LAWS BEING PASSED AFFECTS US TRANS MEN AND TRANSMASCS TOO

Trans men and transmascs are not seen as the "more acceptable" way to be trans

We're told:

- testosterone is a poison and will make us bad pepple

- we're transitioning to the "bad side"

- we're just little girls making "bad" decisions

We're also:

- treated as little white twinks

- treated as fucking babies

- seen as "transtrenders" if we're still femme in any way

- seen as dangerous if we're too manly or masculine

- treated as "not real men" if we menstruate, get pregnant or do anything of the sort

We're told time and time again that our identities aren't important and that the discrimination we face isn't real and that our existence just means we're transmisogynistic

How do you think we feel?

It's even worse when shit like this comes from our own community

[smallhorizons]

I find it very interesting when people who vehemently deny or belittle the existence of transmisandry/transandrophobia/anti-transmasculinity (whatever phrase you prefer) … do believe in butchphobia and talk about specific anti-butch oppression & prejudice

How do you not understand that anti-transmasculinity & butchphobia are Basically the Same Thing? How can you acknowledge the need for there to be a specific word for butches to talk about their oppression, but accuse trans men of being whiny babies or men’s rights activists for trying to coin a word to describe their (extremely similar!!) experiences

How do you not understand that anti-transmasculinity & butchphobia are overlapping circles on a Venn diagram?

I genuinely do not understand the thought process here

[sorin-sunchild]

I love being on T! I love how it helped me! And you know what? Everyone is so different!

Painful bottom growth? Mood swings? Aggression? I didn't get that and neither did my partner!

Everyone is so so different so you might not even get the side effect you're being made to fear and if you do? Brother, you've got a community here to support you.

I am not a danger to anyone because I'm a man, in fact that's been situations where people including kids and women felt more secure around me because I was a man. If you're a good person then you can break stereotypes around men and anyone with high T/T dominant bodies tbh and most people respond to that and don't care you're a man anyway!

I love being hairy! I love that I can switch between handsome and cute by shaving! I love my new voice, it's not super deep but the tone is much nicer now and T did that!

T made me feel more energised! It made me feel stronger! And gooooodbye menstruation!!

And you know what? I love being fat and hairy. Why can't I be a cub/bear? But I also know trans men who are twinks or buff. Gosh, T makes so many handsome and cute people happen!

I look in the mirror and I see a dude and that dude is me and wow??? Thank you Testosterone!!

let trans men&mascs romanticize testosterone.

keep your “you’re not going to look like an anime boy or whatever, you’re just going to look like your dad” to yourself.

keep your “but what about the balding and the acne and the anger problems and the gross hair everywhere and the horrible painful bottom growth and and and” to yourself.

keep your “once you look like a man you will scare people and you can never stop thinking about that” to yourself.

keep your “testosterone is poison and don’t you dare even suggest that saying that might hurt you” to yourself.

we are not obligated to take on your fears and traumas around testosterone as our own, nor are we obligated to let them influence our relationship with it.

we are not obligated to sit here in a world that heavily restricts and constantly threatens our access to it and listen silently as you contribute to stigma around it.

we’re already tired of watching cis society as a whole try to rip it away from us; we don’t need fellow trans people and supposed allies giving credence to their cause.

for many of us testosterone is life-saving medicine, it’s liquid gold, it’s the nectar and ambrosia of the fucking gods.

is it so hard to just let us have that? to let us believe that and say it and celebrate it without being given a million reasons to question it? is that really too much to ask?

if you can find it in your heart to let other trans people romanticize their transitions, i promise you can let us do it to.

testosterone is a beautiful thing. it makes people hotter and even more importantly it makes them happier and anyone who wants it should be able to have it because it’s so life-changing and magical and wonderful and incredibly important to so many people who deserve the happiness it offers.

[genderkoolaid]

It's so frustrating to see people purposefully misunderstand transandrophobia/transmisandry and then very confidently talk disparagingly about the people who talk about their experiences of it and then blatantly ignore everyone going "hey yeah no that's not what that means"

Like. Devon price trying to frame it like people who talk about transandrophobia are doing so firstly because they're just ignorant misogynistic babies who want to be oppressed so bad and also to try and drive a wedge between transmascs and transfemmes is so fucking disingenuous I don't even know where to start.

We're literally just trying to talk about the experiences transmasculine people have and the institutional problems specific to us? Why is this such a fucking problem?

Its painfully obvious that the people who make these posts do not ever actually engage with the discussion of anti-transmasculinity & the wider transunitist-feminist theories. Its embarassingly obvious in this case because Devon tried to make this sick gotcha, by bringing up one of the most common topics of conversation in our spaces.

And then there's the whole "TMRAs don't realize most of what they deal with is misogyny!" take, which I've seen in other places as well. Which imo comes from the idea that people who discuss transmisandry are literally just the trans version of MRAs. & the MRA idea of "misandry" is just a reversal of their idea of feminist theory- so they use it to describe "actually society is based around women's needs and desires and it targets (cis) men and we actually live in a matriarchy!" While the transunitist concept of misandry/antimasculism is "patriarchal beliefs about men/masculinity & the roles they are expected to fulfill, used both generally to reinforce patriarcharal control and specifically to target marginalized men/perceived-masculine people." I coined antimasculism specifically to provide an alternate to misandry for those who are uncomfortable with it because of the MRA associations.

& like. whether or not you agree that these are useful words, its obvious that the transunitist idea of misandry/antimasculism is very different to the MRA one. But to know that you'd have to actually, like, read the things we write & take seriously to our theories on the patriarchy. And not just trust Tumblr Callout For Evil Trans People #3245853723 that said we don't think misogyny exists.

Also tbh I think a bigger part of this issue (transmascs who are anti-transunitist) is that its a symptom of anti-transmasculine erasure. If you don't personally experience, assault, demonization, or accusations of being a predator for being a trans man, and no one you know has either, then... you certainly aren't gonna hear about those issues from wider society. And even if you have, you might not recognize what happened as anti-transmasculine, or tell yourself it must be only a fraction of what trans women go through. & again, they don't fucking read anything we post. That's why I feel like its so important to point out & remember incidents of anti-transmasculinity (like what I do w the AoVaTP). Because its so easy to buy the "people don't violate trans men the same way" until you've read about (tw for somewhat graphic anti-transmasculine violence)

trans men getting their faces cut off, beaten with a chain, thrown out of men and women's bathrooms, hit over the head with a cooler, having their shelter at a refugee camp firebombed, having hot coffee poured in their eyes while being called a "he-she", institutionalized & tortured for not showing "proper gender behaviors" as a child, having their family burn their documents to keep them from getting a job, forced to jump from a 2nd-story window and left to die, being harassed by Fox News for being a "groomer" until their school got bomb threats, held captive and tortured for two years, found dead with their genitals stabbed, assaulted by a police officer for "lesbian activity", called "tranny" a lot, and so many rapes and so many suicides, and this is just some of the shit that I have collected for that archive.

But yeah. We're just whining about silly representation nonsense.

[paintedhyenadogs]

People so easily out specifically trans man related Transphobia as general Transphobia it's kinda weird to me. Past that, yall either demonize or see us as widdle bby men who can do no wrong. It's we're just like shitty men or we're babies. It's like this with terfs and transphobes too.

Transandrophobia and Transmisandry exists. Just as Transmisogyny No it doesn't mean Misandry exists or is just as bad as misogyny, no it doesn't mean we are MRA's. Trans men, like all types of trans people, will experience things (including HATE by terfs or other queers or trannies) that are unique to us. We experience misogyny, but we also experience transmisandry. If you can't understand that, learn.

This especially applies to other trans people. We are your fellow trans siblings, and you are fellow family. We aren't against eachother. We are on the same side, fighting the same fight.

[2percentsugar]

your post was funny af what did that person even mean by "considering the source". here im a trans man on t had top surgery and have bottom surgery on the way and still don't wear boxers. probably wont until after srs cause they don't fit me that great personally. it legiterally doesn't matter. wear what makes you comfortable especially underwear. those companies are preying on your insecurity, bitch!

AW thank you anon 💕 for context, this is the post they commented under. i think the tweet was by a trans woman (it looks like deirdreskye's icon, maybe that's her twitter?) and the post i drowned was written by a transmisandry truther who was. well. truthing

i am also post op several years on t and i personally love my walmart aisle boxer briefs (better than boxers or briefs check em out ppl) but you're certainly not the only person ive met who they dont fit well. hell ive met cis men who have trouble w the constant wedgies. underwear isnt gendered and the only people who will see yours are the ppl you trust the most so get what fits

i have sympathy for the baby transes who struggle w getting new clothing and want a shortcut. the first few times i went to the store for Boy Clothes, i left without any. but thats an obstacle you have to surmount, you cant just buy from queer lifestyle brands forever. i really hate the tomboyxs of the world which prey on this insecurity

[dreamyintersexouppy]

honestly i think there’s a social damage to this constant transmisogynistic “discourse” that gets ignored a bit cuz like… the young (this isn’t a dig i check y’all’s ages youre Babies half the time) transmascs who participate in it are being closed off to an understanding of themselves and their position in society that they should rightly understand. them being ignorant of how gender and sex works and how society is structured to enforce its systems makes them unprepared to face their own oppression. and no i don’t mean transmisandry. considering it, or whatever other name you have for it, is just a transmisogynist smokescreen it lacks the framework for understanding and teaching about actual transphobia faced by transmascs and it does it’s ill gained followers a disservice simply by existing as a replacement for actual history and theory. it’s not a big deal cuz the primary danger of the people subscribing to these beliefs is the threat they pose to transfems in their vitriolic harassment campaigns and constant attempts at redefining us out of existence, but i have no doubt there will be a day where these boys will have to grapple with the fact that they lost years to believing in and advocating for these damaging ideas. they’ll have spent years in social circles that are kept together by fear and threats, they’ll have let themselves be walked over by the cis people who glom on to this rhetoric to excuse their own transphobia and hatred, they’ll have to realize that they’ve been lost and for a long long time and that it will take effort and even more time to dig themselves out and it won’t be kind to them. not all of them will hit that realization i know, but a lot of them will and how will they cope without their brothers and sisters to support them when they finally do, i just don’t know

[0w0tsuki]

Didn't you know that TransUnity is when you go around collecting screenshots of trans folks and put them side by side with literal actual fascists and call transwomen who are against this TERFs?

This surely ISN'T infighting itself and is what's needed to mend the divide in the trans community.

[gaphic]

frankly the only problem with the term ‘transandrophobia’ is that it should be transmisandry, both linguistically and because it’s easier to spell and say, but we can’t call it that because a lot of simpering baby brains would take one look and say ‘um misandry isn’t REAL’

[bisexualgenderfemme]

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[amantisgender vastsatyretflux]

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(I do not use the term transmisandry as Misandry is not a real or useful axis of oppression. I do believe there's a specific kind of oppression against, tho not exclusive to, transmasculine people on the basis of being trans in a masculinizing direction & I believe it is often a Trojan horse for transmisogyny, one is easy to lead into the other. for this reason I use the phrase 'anti-transmasculinity' as coined by trans feminist theorists/academics to discuss the ways our oppressions are different as well as build on each other.)

i block liberally & often 4 anything from slightly annoying 2 evil bigot. dont think ab it 2 hard.

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DO NOT CALL ME QUEER UNLESS WE ARE FRIENDS. MUCH LOVE TO QUEER PPL, HAPPY TO BE PART OF THE QUEER COMMUNITY, BUT I JUST DO NOT WANT TO BE CALLED THAT. THANKS KISSKISS

I am NOT a woman, but I am everything around it, circling the drain, as many femmes are.

I am multigender/nonbinary. I am A Femme but I am also a man & the two cannot b separated. i try not to interact w/ 'men dni' blogs unless they specifically say they're open to multigender ppl. I do interact w/ sapphic posts as a man as well as a femme & a girl. I do not like the men vs non-men dichotomy, as I do not fit this binary, or the idea that my manhood is more important than my femmehood. if any of that will bother u we're not for each other & that's fine!

please be sensible about labels u use for me, just bc u follow or we're moots doesn't mean u can b a dick & use them as insults. u will b blocked.

[degenderates]

transphobia specifically directed at trans men and transmasculine people is not transmisandry. it's not transandrophobia. there is specific oppression that trans men face, but it's not because we're men or masculine, as those two words imply. it's just fucking misogyny. "young girls are being brainwashed/groomed into being trans" = misogyny. "trans men with mental illnesses can't really know if they're trans or not" = assumes people they see as girls can't make their own decisions = infantilization of women = misogyny. "transmascs over-masculinize themselves to fit in" = demonizes gender transgression of anyone assigned female at birth = misogyny. "what if they decide to detransition and can't have children?/testosterone can cause infertility/testosterone can cause irreversible changes" = sees people with uteruses as vessels for babies and the patriarchy = misogyny.

internet trans discourse is stupid and i just want to shake people by the shoulders and scream that both sides of the "transandrophobia" debate are so fucking reductive. all of the above rhetoric is alive and well and the cause of a shit ton of anti-trans legislation, sentiment, and violence both nationally (US) and internationally, and i'm tired of people who aren't transmasculine acting like trans men automatically have male privilege just because we identify as men now. it doesn't change how cis ppl see us, and even if a guy has been on hormones for awhile, he's still affected by reproductive laws (hmm...correlation in US legislation/rights anyone?), as one example. this of course doesn't mean trans men can't have male privilege, but it's not the universal sticker of "this person is a man and therefore doesn't face x" that cis men have.

personally i am not a fan of the way "transmisogyny" is used as a specifier, because from what i've seen, the oppression that trans women and men (and nonbinary people, especially those who do hormones or surgeries), though different, all stems from misogyny. transphobia itself stems from misogyny. i don't like how "transmisogyny"--and especially its derivatives, tme/tma--imply that trans men somehow face less oppression than trans women. we are all one group and the insistence on dividing us into this ridiculous binary, one that is supposedly, to internet queers, the greatest divide when it comes to types of transphobia, erases factors like race and disability that i think have much more of a sway on how likely it is that a trans person will be a target. you think a black trans man transitioning now means he'll somehow be safer than a white trans woman? really????

before y'all turn this into the pancake waffle thing, i'm not saying the word transmisogyny is bad or that we shouldn't talk about the intersectionality of being trans and a woman. but the way the trans community, and by extension, the cis queer community, talks about it as if trans women are the only ones that are women, seen as women, feel connected to womanhood, adjacent to womanhood, and face all the misogyny related to those things is frankly one of the stupidest progressions of queer theory i've ever seen. intersectionality of gender identity, transness, and sexuality is so complicated, fluid, and personal in a way that a gender/sexuality intersection with race, disability, or class is not. while there are threads of connection between all of these things, the two "types" of gendered oppression, misogyny and transphobia, are so closely tied together and smushed together within the meaning of gender that efforts to put clear-cut terms and frameworks of intersectionality within that little shaken-up cocktail is going to be fruitless.

and y'alls insistence on doing so, trying to dumb everything down into rules that don't always apply and definitely don't match up with the way the actual world treats trans people, drives me fucking crazy.

[necronatural]

am i seriously seeing transmisandry discourse on tumblr on top of twitter. like its some ambiguous exclusionary epidemic??

i will tell you now in no uncertain terms: everyone likes bullying these guys because they are misogynists, and often transmisogynist. thats it. the word naturally attracts dudes who are annoyed when women are centred and other women have noticed how often this happens and make fun of them for it.

Yes, it's really unfair when people assume you're one of these misogynists without listening to your perfectly salient points. It sucks. But you aren't going to get any further in the discussion by accusing them with "so you're minimizing trans men?" like no baby they're minimizing the guy who's favourite slur is baeddel. The problem is that they have unfairly associated you with that dude. Start there.

[omegawizardposting]

The transandrophobia debate is batshit to me. The fact that other trans folk are so angry at transmascs for coining terms that help us discuss our oppression--absolutely mad. We are being raped and beaten to death and denied reproductive rights and facing medical discrimination, but because we're men, we aren't allowed to talk about it.

They say, "Well, transandrophobia is a bad term! Try something else!" We've already tried everything. Y'all didn't like transmisandry. Y'all don't like anti-transmasculinity. Y'all don't like transandrophobia. Y'all don't like transandromisia. Nothing will satisfy y'all.

They say, "Well, transandrophobia was coined by a bad person!" You mean the trans POC who faced a massive harassment campaign for daring to have a sexuality in private? For daring to indulge a transfem partner's "problematic" kink? For daring to talk about transmasc issues? Y'all hunted down the guy's PRIVATE KINK BLOG and MADE HIS PRIVATE CONSENSUAL SEXUAL INTERACTIONS public. Y'all did this so y'all could shut down discussions of transmasc oppression. Y'all needed dirt on him to delegitimize our latest attempt at trying to draw attention to our suffering.

They say, "Well, actually, it's just transphobia and misogyny!" Then let us use transmisogyny. You don't like that either, though. That word is for transfems only. I want to know what I should call the medical discrimination trans men experience for being men. How we can be forced to detransition to have a child OR to have an abortion. How gynecologists refuse us treatment because we aren't women. How Republicans used us to strip away reproductive rights for all AFAB people, pointing to us as examples of lost lambs who need a good cis man to put a baby in us.

What should I call all of that? What should I call it when people hate me for not being a cis woman? When my manhood and masculinity is what makes them despise me? When being a man is what makes me trans?

I know the answer. You don't want me to call it anything. You want me to shut up and sit down like a good girl boy.

[sunset-synthetica]

See like. Obviously the transphobia transmascs experience IS different to transfems and I think that specifically the like. infantilization and "oh you're just confused" and "my little baby uwu" bullshit we go through is an important topic to discuss.

but transmisandry/transandrophobia/whatever else completely misses the point because the term transMISOYGNY exists due to the intersection of misogyny and transphobia that affects transfems, where as transmascs get like. "I hate all men" thrown at them occasionally. which still sucks but it's not comparable.

[gwemmieee]

I think there's a real problem of getting lost in the weeds of terminology.

There are real issues of transphobia happening to trans mascs (or people who are perceived as trans masc as in this particular case) and a lot of it happens because of preconceptions about masculinity. For that reason, plenty of people want to call it transandrophobia or transmisandry. I think that is fair. Trans mascs deserve to have an easy way to refer to directly to experiences of oppression that are unique to them.

There is also a real intersection of transphobia and misogyny that affects trans fems, transmisogyny. It is very standard and institutionalized. We get a lot of bonus oppression because of the way that our existence doesn't just challenge gender, but also challenges the patriarchy directly, because we are choosing to "downgrade" in its view. All trans people struggle with frequently being dehumanized, but while trans mascs struggle with being respected and let into feminine spaces, trans fems struggle with ever being allowed to exist in any spaces at all without immediate erasure and ostracization. We are starting to form our own very downtrodden communities in fringe places like tumblr, but we're still mostly never given the chance to grow up, have friends, find success, etc. It's all-encompassing, and it's suffocating, and it happens especially because we are a gender that usually cannot find success or safety without direct intervention and support from good parents or allies, and even when we do, it is forever by the grace of people who have the power to abuse and control us, and at the same time, we are usually barred from even being fully seen or treated as that gender, which nearly erases any access to support we otherwise might have had. And even in trans spaces, we are heavily muted and controlled by severe pressure--that is often especially enforced by trans mascs--to always be perfect, stable, reasonable, and to never be the crazy trans woman who gets ostracized for having feelings and trust issues. For that reason, plenty of people want to maintain a distinction between the hightened and more institutionalized struggles resulting from transmisogyny. I think that is also fair. Trans fems deserve to be recognized and supported for the extreme and all-encompassing levels of dehumanization that we tend to face from literally everyone else in our lives, unless we're lucky enough to have great parents or a real ally as a close friend.

So here's where I'm at. If a trans masc wants to talk about their own problems and have a word for it they picked, that's totally fine. None of us should have a problem with that. It's great to be able to acknowledge your own struggles. However, if a trans masc wants to hold any baby trans fem to an unreasonably high standard of always knowing what is and isn't OK to say, and what feelings are not OK to voice, instead of engaging in good faith and trying to hear them, validate them, educate them, and NOT control them, that's kinda fucked up. Let the understanding between us focus on reality and each other's feelings. We do not need to practice perfect usage of terminology in every setting. And we do not need to make inflammatory statements about what forms of oppression are and are not real. Transphobic behavior over preconceptions about masculinity--transmisandry--is a real thing that happens.

"Transandrophobia isn't real"

A few years back my grandparents and I wanted to see a gynecologist for reasons, I was under 18, but every gynecologist that worked with minors refused to take trans boys. I haven't had a single bit of medical transition unless you count birth control. I have a vagina and boobs. Everything about my body is female but I was denied care because my hair was short and I had a deeper voice.

And when I tried explaining this to a transphobe they went "Well yeah they don't want mentally ill people"

My exclusion was based off of me being too masculine. Y'know, the thing that transandrophobes claim doesn't exist?

Transmascs go through the same shit transfems do. Transandrophobes need to stop shitting on us to feel superior and get a fucking life.